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Dear Sandra and Arthur,
Thank you for both of your thorough replies. I read through
it twice and it makes sense. Ok, now the other part of my
question involves sexual purity. We were doing our homework
in pre-marital class this week and the topic is about sex.
We were discussing what GodŠs standards are in purity in comparison
to His standards in drinking. If taking a sip of wine is sin,
then is holding hands/kissing a sin as well?
Dear:
This second question that you brought up is a little more
complicated than the first and it is kind of hard to address
in an email. It might be better addressed in person. We all
know that sexual purity is commanded by the Lord and we also
all know that we all fall so short of it. Arthur always says
that we should not arouse desires that cannot be righteously
fulfilled. Everything in our society tries its best to arouse
and illicit those desires. There is quite a bit of tension.
I think there is a lot of lust that is deposited by all these
inputs that seem to want to get fulfilled in the dating relationship.
Most of the time our discussions with couples on this topic
is done to restore a certain degree of purity that was lost.
Blessed is the couple who could enter holy matrimony with
a sense of sexual purity even if they had to backtrack to
get there. Each stage of a relationship is purposeful and
sort of a testing ground. At the courtship stage, a couple
builds respect for his/her partner's sense of self-control
and integrity that will definitely be needed in marriage.
The problem of sexual purity doesn't end once you get married.
It BEGINS when you get married. All the actions and transgressions
that happened before you get married are pretty much brought
into the bedroom once you get married. You know that finances
and sex are the two biggest problems in marriage. I don't
think too many people can continue to enjoy sex if it brings
along with it a lot of memories of guilt and shame.
Well, sexual purity is definitely not a gray area but it
is a JOURNEY. As in any journey, the DIRECTION a person is
going is all important to the destination. I think that this
is pretty much the extent of this discussion that an email
can handle. For us to share in a more personal manner, even
our journey, or more specific advice would probably be better
done in person. If you would like to talk further, just let
us know.
In Him,
Sandra (and Arthur)
Hi:
Hope you're well. I'm going to try and steal a few minutes
to address your question. Hope Sandra's answer earlier was
useful.
Let's make sure you heard me right. I didn't say the act
of taking a sip of wine is sin, in and of itself. I did say
that I didn't think it was best (especially in this day and
age, where beverage options abound), that it could stumble
others, could lead to worse things, and could be sin for many.
Now, for me, with the conscience I have now, it would be sin
(barring some extreme circumstances).
As for holding hands, I'm not sure why this would be classified
as sin - you'll have to explain the thought process for me,
so I can better understand where you're coming from.
ArenŠt these two things done without the glory of God
in mind?
Um, doesn't that depend? Can we say de facto that they are
done without the glory of God in mind? I don't think I can
say that. I do believe it is possible to hold hands to the
glory of God, as long as it's within His parameters and design:
Holding hands can be a tender form of expression of love
and care to another, conveying commitment, loyalty, and thankful
affection (thankful to God and to the loved one). If it is
done heartlessly, merely out of habit, and selfishly, then
it would be sin indeed. I could also see it as sinful if it
is being used to lead someone on, to make another jealous,
or if it arouses desires that you can't righteously fulfill.
Ultimately, that's where I tell couples to draw their lines
for physical touch: you've gone too far when you arouse desires
you can't righteously fulfill.
We were talking about both of these topics having gray
areas. Drinking alcohol is a gray area, I agree.
I agree it's a little gray, but not that gray.
But isnŠt sexual purity not a gray area because God strictly
encourages us to remain pure until we get married? IsnŠt this
a black and white area? If it were gray, then each individual
would have their own line of where sin starts. What if one
person thinks doing something is sin whereas the other doesnŠt?
I know that in this case, you abide by the higher standard
but it does not solve the question of whether it is sinful
or not, or whether the person truly believes if it is sinful
or not. IŠve read so many books about dating and some are
very strict whereas some are vague. Thanks for hearing me
out i really respect you guys and your thoughts on this.
Well, I'd have to agree with you that it is black and white,
and at the same time say that the black and white line isn't
necessarily the same for all people. The Bible teaches that
to whom more is given, more is required, that teachers will
be held to a stricter judgment, etc. So, the line of judgment
isn't the same with all people.
I would expect more from the one who has been walking with
the Lord for years, been exposed to His Word, and has been
in various dialogues and discussions regarding these areas,
than I would for one who is new in the faith and has absolutely
no Christian background. With all the knowledge and understanding
that the older believer has, I think his line of sin is a
lot further back than the new believer, who is trying to work
through how his new relationship with Christ is to affect
this area of his life. If the new believer is genuine, and
he is truly seeking Christ's glory, then the line will eventually
get scaled back as he discovers more and his mind is being
transformed by Christ.
An example of this is my kids. For all four of them, disobedience
to me is sin - black and white. However, the act of disobedience
begins at different points for each of them. As far as pure
actions go, I surely have a longer leash with Angela than
I do with Nathaniel. I can't expect her to be where he is
yet. However, for where each of them are at, I do have the
same expectation of obedience. It just looks different for
each of them, though hers will eventually look like his (prayerfully).
I have to say that the issue isn't so much whether particular
actions are sinful or not as much as whether the motivation,
intention, and thought process behind the actions were sinful
or not. After all, sin is a moral issue, right? 1Samuel 16:7
states that "man looks at the outward appearance (the action)
but God looks at the heart (what's behind the action)."
God wants the purity of our intention and our hearts' allegiance
and delight. As John MacArthur once put it, God is not after
our perfection but our direction. He wants us headed in the
right direction, toward Him! The fact is that we're all still
sinful in our behavior even though we're Christians. However,
we're getting less and less sinful and more and more righteous
as time goes on.
Jesus reminded us that man was not made for the law but
the law was made for man. We weren't created so we could try
to live up to the law. Instead, the law was created to give
us the proper parameters to live within. Thus, the issue Paul
was dealing with in 1Corinthians was that eating meat for
some was sinful while for others it was not. That all had
to do with the conscience and where people were coming from,
even though meat is just that, meat. I think it's in James
where we are told that to do something that you believe is
wrong is sin, (even though the act in and of itself isn't,
if you think it is and you violate your conscience, you're
sinning). Martin Luther said that his conscience was held
captive by the word of God and to go against conscience is
neither right nor safe.
I'll tell you that even within marriage, sex can be sinful.
Again, if it's not done to the glory of God, it's sinful,
even in marriage.
Now, of course sex before marriage is sin, and other sexual
behavior before intercourse would likely constitute sin as
well. However, I do believe that if a pastor or leader, who
has counseled people in this arena and committed to purity,
was engaging in "light petting" with his girlfriend, it would
be graver sin than it would be for a newer believer, who's
been used to lots of heavy petting but is now scaling back
after discovering Christ's standard, but still finding his
way. I think this can be seen in how Jesus treated sinful
women who gave their hearts to him versus the Jewish leaders
(Pharisees), who never did what the women did but, were counted
as unrighteous. Once the new believer knew and wrestled with
the proper standard, however, he would be held to the standard
of his knowledge.
I think that when you hold verses like 1Cor. 10:31 and Matt.
6:33 to be your verses to live by, then everything else will
fall into place - "seek first (which really means, seek only)
His Kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will
be added unto you"
With all that being said, it's important to say that when
this area of a relations isn't right, the rest of the relationship
follows suit too. When it is right, then everything else in
the relationship seems to fall into place. That was our experience.
We were "fumbling" through this area when we finally got a
good hold of it (by God's grace). That set the foundation
and groundwork for the rest of our future together. I remember
when I got a call one day from a very discouraged engaged
man, who said his fiance was having doubts about him, his
spiritual life, his leadership, their relationship, etc. We
talked for a few hours. It turned out that this sexual area
wasn't in good order - they didn't have intercourse but were
beyond where they should have been. I told him to scale far
back and gave him some other advice along those lines. The
next day, the girl called (very down) and Sandra did the same
with her. Much to their credit, they love the Lord a lot (which
is why this was bothering them) and have always been very
teachable. They took our advice of scaling WAY back to not
even being in a room alone together (sadly, some don't take
our advice and have ended up in serious sin). Hope that helps
Let me know what you think!
Arthur
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